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Site Admin **Joined:** 18 Aug 2003 **Posts:** 278

Discuss the "TRAIN FOR PAIN BONUS" article

view the article

Site Admin **Joined:** 02 Jan 2009 **Posts:** 115

This is the greatest article about anything EVER. Smile

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David Barr CSCS, CISSN, USATF
Exercise Science Writer, Online Editor
Muscle & Fitness
Facebook Username: DBMuscle

Gym Rat **Joined:** 19 Nov 2006 **Posts:** 768

first off i dont see a program like it says in the first line. and second off i dont know what eccentric training is. im so much help :bleh: .

and i also dont know why the science of muscle growth would ever be sexy (unless you've got some weird fetish dave)

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"In this eat or be eaten world I've feasted everyday of my life"
Anchor

"Be fearful when others are greedy, and be greedy when others are fearful."
Warren Buffett

Site Admin **Joined:** 02 Jan 2009 **Posts:** 115

Hi Anchor, the program is in the August issue. This was meant as an accompaniment.

Forced eccentric (or negative) training involves using weights that are heavier than you can move in the positive direction. For example, if you can bench press 200lbs, forced eccentric work could involve bench press with 250lbs -using only the negative portion.

And yes, perhaps sadly, any kind of science is sexy to me. : Wink

:

Thanks for the comments!

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David Barr CSCS, CISSN, USATF
Exercise Science Writer, Online Editor
Muscle & Fitness
Facebook Username: DBMuscle

Gym Rat **Joined:** 19 Nov 2006 **Posts:** 768

heres my uneducated 2 cents...
lets look at the bp here,
at the lock out point of the motion your muscles are contracted then on the way down they are forced to spread apart by the weight which IMO would be the mostly likely time for the muscles to tear. why put them under extra harmful stress?

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"In this eat or be eaten world I've feasted everyday of my life"
Anchor

"Be fearful when others are greedy, and be greedy when others are fearful."
Warren Buffett

Site Admin **Joined:** 02 Jan 2009 **Posts:** 115

Great question Anchor -you're exactly right about the microtearing.

As we progress with training it becomes more difficult to elicit gains in muscle size and strength. This is largely a result of our muscle becoming accustomed to damaging exercise, and essentially minimizing this microtrauma -not great for hypertrophy.

The amount of actual initial microtearing, in an advanced athlete using this program, is likely not all that different from a beginner moving relatively heavy weights. Interestingly, the secondary damage would likely be reduced in the advanced group, because secondary damage (from oxidative stress) would likely be reduced.

Summary: The induction of muscle microtrauma is a goal of hypertrophy training, but this becomes more difficult as the athlete becomes more advanced. This program seeks to overcome the limitations of muscle adaptation to that goal.

Hope that helps!

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David Barr CSCS, CISSN, USATF
Exercise Science Writer, Online Editor
Muscle & Fitness
Facebook Username: DBMuscle

Pencil Neck **Joined:** 18 Sep 2006 **Posts:** 55

Question on the topic:

I'm just not feeling much in the DOMS dept.

First, let me start at the beginning...

Right now I'm not doing the "full" Train for Pain program because I'm focusing heavily on squats and bent-over rows at the moment, plus some nagging shoulder pain is limiting the amount of benching I do. My basic workout consists of DEEP squats (butt all the way in the hole), bent-over rows, deadlifts, standing military presses, pec deck (due to shoulders), barbell curls and pressdowns with rope. (Basically doing the Starr program.)

However, I thought this might be a nice way to bring up my arms more. So, on Saturday's I've been doing the eccentric training for biceps and triceps. I do warm-ups, then some medium lifts, then eccentric, then some feeders. By the end, I feel a pump, but no more than what I'd get normally and by the next day my arms are fine - no DOMS at all. Not doing enough weight? Not doing it right?

My 1RM for barbell curls is about 115lbs (based on 5x100lbs). So, I load the bar with 80lbs and do two sets of two. I can hold it longer in the upper half of the rep and it decends fairly rapidly in the lower half of the rep.

My 1RM for pressdowns using a rope is about 170 (based on 5x150lbs). So, I use the D-handle and load up 120lbs. I can hold it pretty good with arm extended, but the weight totally kicks my butt once my arm bends past 45 degrees.

The article mentions that DOMS is to be expected and that this is extremely hard on the body. But I just don't feel any different after this than I would with any other regular arm routine.

Doing something wrong?

Thanks!

Rob

P.S. What's your thought on once a week replacing regular bent-over rows with eccentric bent-over rows done on a smith machine?

Pencil Neck **Joined:** 29 Oct 2009 **Posts:** 1

i dont get it
i see all the other workouts listed in their articles. but not for eccentrics
where is the full workout at?????
i understand it is in the "august issue" but I can no longer go out and buy that issue so why dont you guys post it on the article now as well???????????

Site Admin **Joined:** 16 Jan 2009 **Posts:** 480

Good point, Fireman!!!

If you would like to PM me your mailing address, I will be happy to send you a back issue!! Smile

In the meantime, I will see if we can post this article in the Forum!

Thank you,

Helen